[SOLVED] Early disappointments

You sticking around?

I like your sentiment; even if your facts are terrible.

Pows are awful horrible compromises to get the other good ideas to work. Bitcoin and its pow was the critical mass of decades of research and culture. The simplist example being szabos smartcontracts

The premise of donations in grin still uses greed as a catalyst. If you want to use grin for profit, it is in your selfish best interest to help maintain the network’s development so you can continue to profit. Hopefully there are some features of grin that motivate people to use it and not just move on to the next thing.

At the end of the day sovereign, private digital cash is an extremely small niche most people are not aware of or interested in, unfortunate as that may be. The only way grin (or bitcoin) is going to go anywhere is through the commitment of people who are interested in the political and socioeconomic (and to some degree other aspects like technology for technology’s sake) ideas behind it. This motivation is much more important than pure greed in the short term, though the desire could be boiled down to a form of greed of freedom or something. Greed alone won’t bootstrap.

I think donations are very aligned with grins goals. If we can’t get a bare minimum of people to donate it’s a clear indication there is not demand and the project is doomed anyway. Enthusiasm and ideals have to get us to a point where pure economics can even be viable.


I like this project. How can we help advance it?

You can help the project by donating what you’re able to the developers here.

@yasabi I see you reached your funding goal, maybe I’ll donate in the next round. For now my inner demon tells me that validating grin above other cryptos would be helpful in growing adoption. The MVP has been launched, how’s the feedback? Any real world use cases for grin that can be shared, any success stories? Is there a niche market that’s using grin? Why are they using it? Am i missing the point, feel free to guide me in the right direction.

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Unless we are speaking of whales that are heavily invested in Grin and are capable of funding the donations on their own, it is actually an instance of Prisoner’s Dilemma. The ideal situation is that everyone except you donates.

I would donate but I’m truly broke atm. When crypto recovers I will for sure.

I’d like to add my two cents as I came through the same for past couple of years.

I was a lead developer of Ethereum Classic blockchain since the fork in 2016. ETC was based purely on principles and was a community driven blockchain. It was heavily promoted by ETH as a scam fork, though we just wanted to have a blockchain without transaction reversal. Anyway, we didn’t have any money to continue development, no foundation, no premine, no dev tax, nothing to provide funding. Seems to be the same situation as Grin has now.

Still I managed to find some donations in 2016 and built a full time team to work on protocol for two years. It’s possible to find money, but very hard, and there’re many other problems with that.

There’re some caveats I’d like to share:

  • don’t expect much from mining pools, they simply can’t provide significant funding; mining pools has just small share of reward and had to competed to each other for miners; miners just choose a most profitable pool
  • don’t expect much from traders/investors, they believe you’re doing the same and because you have some insights (they think so) you’re making more than them
  • financial/investments companies are interested in control, nothing more, regardless what they say; they are sharks, be careful, or they will take everything (as it happened to my projects)
  • businesses and exchanges are not interested as well, they actually expect you will pay them or at least provide free support, because they already giving you a favor by trading your coin
  • an average member of community can donate few dollars, just as a tip, so it’s not going to cover anything, even forum server
  • it’s good to be anonymous, because people will be attacking you just non stop, you’ll be responsible for everything in their life, you’ll receive hundreds of treating letters; i.e. if someone bought to some 1000 GRIN GIVEAWAY scam, you’ll be responsible for that and they will demand you to compensate their loses
  • people will think you’re already super rich (you’re printing money, after all, right?), so will ask you to give them money
  • on a bear market it’s especially hard to raise money; any agreements made year ago are defaulted now, nobody in crypto space has free money anymore

That’s what came to my mind right now, just informing you about potential risks, but I’ll be happy to answer questions, hope it will help you


Grin (or at the very least MW) is a technological breakthrough. We’ve already seen that there are huge interests from wealthy people and they have been willing to donate to keep the development afloat so far. While “the average” member only can donate a few bucks as a tip, there seems to be enough wealthy interest.

I suspect you’re underestimating the Grin community. As I see it, it is closer to the Bitcoin community than any other project has been so far. I think Grin will suffer from people complaining about getting scammed as much as Bitcoin does—hardly at all.


Thanks for your honest account of your experiences - it is very Grin. There will be many disappointments on the road to financial self-sovereignty for sure. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. The word according to Gartner is instructive with regard to any new technology and this equally, probably applies to cryptocurrencies in general, but don’t despair as we cross the peak of inflated expectations… the important thing is to be there when the slope of enlightenment begins its upward trajectory…


That’s exactly what everyone from ETC community would say back in 2016. I didn’t mean Grin community in my post, I’m sure current Grin community is great, but I mean blockchain space in general. On other hand, time flies and new people come.

In ETC first 6 months or so were great, with huge interest, small but respectful and intelligent community, with wealthy people willing to donate (as I said I managed to find donations in first months), mentality close to Bitcoin community, supporting blockchain principles, against scams, price manipulations, icos, and so on.

PS don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean you’ll have exactly same problems, I just saying what I saw personally, maybe it will be useful to know, maybe not

Maybe a good option for funding would be a Community/Development/Funding mining pool, where miners use said pool and contribute their voluntary % to the project.

Just “Voluntary” is not enough. “Tax treasury” would be a sustainable way. Grin can not be a medium of exchange before find the “scaling solution”. Output TPS is very low. Need a lot of research. And funds too. VISA handle 1700 tx/s on average. Grin only 10-20 tx/s.

Nassim said : Rationality is not what has conscious verbalistic explanatory factors; it is only what aids survival, avoids ruin.

  1. https://hackernoon.com/blockchains-dont-scale-not-today-at-least-but-there-s-hope-2cb43946551a
  2. https://hackernoon.com/the-blockchain-scalability-problem-the-race-for-visa-like-transaction-speed-5cce48f9d44
  3. https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-be-rational-about-rationality-432e96dd4d1a
  4. https://www.investinblockchain.com/1000-crypto-projects-died-2018-bear-market/

Grin is so feature packed that only a few of the avant guard crypto smiles have had time to experience it first hand. The secret will get out so just grab more now before the wicked math settles in and the utility and happy vibe of grin humbly outshines the rest. My suggestion is to send a small amount of Grin to yourself as a test and to see for yourself the real use cases and all the possibilities to spend, safeguard and gift.

Check back in a few weeks for real world brands debuting GRIN with online shopping (sprees!)… Anyone remember "Collect-on-delivery " packages by mail? Soon, when shopping with Grin you will have the security of closing your final transaction only when your order has been received and you are a happy customer. This will create new marketplaces and person to person transaction types not even thought of yet. Digital collectables between GrinFriends will be fun too.



Donating to a dev is definitely not a matter of greed & profit, since you bare the cost and everybody enjoys the reward together. Let’s not pretend these are good incentives.

Devs may ask for financial help but it would be foolish of them base the entire project’s development on it.
Let’s not forget this is open source software. If nobody wants to work on it for free in his spare time, it deserves to be forgotten anyway.

for long term, i really hope mining pools and ASIC designer can have 1-2 percentage for grin dev.

Keep in mind some of the miners themselves like the freedom to decide when and, how much to gift themselves; could be that the most giving of them all could come from that pool later in time.

I feel the same. 10000%

Yes, yes, yes, yes!


He asked “Let’s see what happens”

You said, “Magic will happen”

Indeed. This was pretty cool…