Update from Innosilicon Regarding Grin ASICs

Innosilicon issued an update today regarding delivery Grin ASICs. Final delivery times will be confirmed on the 30th of September. Prices for new orders rise 25% after Innosilicon incurred greater than expected costs in designing the hardware.

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With the Grin network scheduled to upgrade to Cuckatoo 31+ in January 2020 and Cuckatoo 32+ in January 2021, Innosilicon has designed the hardware with a focus on longevity. The subsequent upgrade to Cuckatoo 33+ is not scheduled to be implemented until January 2023.

Lots of errors in there. Cuckatoo31+ has been there from genesis, while January 2020 sees the start of Cuckatoo31 phasing out. That phaseout ends in August 2020. In January 2021, the ASIC resistant secondary PoW of Cuckaroo completes its phaseout, leaving only Cuckatoo32+ with no further planned changes.

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You took the word out of my mouth ^^
Further one of the main information shared in Inno’s recent tweets - that the excact shipping days of batch 1-3 are planned to be announced on Sep 30th is missing.

Source:

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This thread was brought to my attention. Reading thru the various links and twitter feed, the information put out by Inno is troubling on many fronts.

Those entrenched in the SoC design and/or foundry space would certainly agree.

  1. Announcing a delay now?

They must have known >60 days ago that this was not going to be on schedule. Cycle times for prototyping is 60-90 days. Was this material information withheld from the Grin community?

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps this is new information Inno has discovered.

Then the silicon is back and is not working? That is one possibility.

Or they are in the middle of the design/verification phase and going back to drawing board?

The vague statement of the design complexity is a weak explanation.

  1. 25% increase in ASP? …just bad karma, to gouge.

The paper-tiger strategy has left them as the only game in-town.

Aside from the community paying more, no potential provider of HW will trust that this will not happen again. Sharing of information grinds to a halt.

The community loses.

  1. Suggesting the 5G ramp is causing delays?

The only foundry in volume production for 5G products is TSMC (for Qualcomm or Huawei). That is public knowledge.

Previous designs by Inno use Samsung foundry. Reasonable to assume they would stay the course for this design (IP re-use, established flows, technical risk etc…)

5G should have nothing to do with their ability to ramp. Coupling 5G to their delays, feels like mis-direction.

If anything, Inno should have a wider corridor to ramp in 8nm.

Perhaps this is why Whatsminer is ramping with Samsung foundry (public knowledge recently shared by the MicroBT folks).

If Inno is going with Samsung’s 7nm EUV, then the schedule delays are even worst.

The non-public facts are equally troubling. But adherence to integrity and code of conduct is core to some of us.

Asia_King needs to respond back to the Grin community.

Thanks for pointing this out Tromp!

We have delisted the article and will do further research on Grin development schedule for the Cuckatoo mining algorithm.

Does anyone find it odd that Innosilicon post their statement in jpeg format? Here’s the link to Inno’s Twitter post. Could it be that jpeg leaves less of an internet history and footprint which makes it easier for Innosilicon to remove history if they decide not to ship?

Here’s an example of how Innosilicon deletes products and any evidence with
“official” Innosilicon linkage. I point to the non-existent A10 Ethminer.

Innosilicon twitter search for A10 results in zero hits to Innosilicon’s Twitter pages

Bitcointalk users unable to buy A10 from Innosilicon site 2 months after announcement

Yet Innosilicon claims on Grin Forum they arestill working on the A10 when there are no updates or references on the official Innosilicon website or Twitter page.

Wonder if the Inno CC32 Miner will go the way of the mysterious A10? Or will mankind solve the riddle of whether the chicken or egg came first before we figure out why Innosilicon post their statements in jpeg format?

Anyways here’s Inno’s post in text format for internet archival purposes.

G32 Grin Product Status Update

Dear Valued Grin G32 Customers,

We’d like to share our Grin product status with you. The good news is that after many months of intensive engineering work. we are confident that our World’s 1st CC31/CC32 compatible G32 programmable GPU ASIC will come out meeting its original specification and will stand out as the best for the years to come outperforming the best GPU by a huge margin. We remain committed to the Grin CC31 to CC32 evolution path for a long product life time despite of the challenging design complexity.

The not so good news is that it took us 2 to 3 months longer than the original plan to complete the final design with the bigger than expected effort and cost into thoroughly verifying the complex ASIC to ensure robustness, as it is too big to be prototyped in any FPGA. Also at the moment the foundry capacity for advanced process is super tight due to the recent 5G mobile ASIC demand surge so fabrication line is kind of long.

Despite of all that, we believe the chip is well worth the wait as it will still come ahead of anyone as our competition already backed out and there is no other credible offering. Final confirmed delivery date for Batch1/2/3 pre-orders will be announced by September 30th. All pre-orders we have received so far are in fact not many in total so everyone will be winners and will be delivered strictly according to the payment order. All Batch of pre-order customers will have the rights to cancel the order and apply for full refund if we miss more than 30 days of the original invoice delivery date. For those who are willing to stick to your commitment and wait for the order, you will be rewarded with the best Grin ASlC product shipment strictly according to payment order with the lowest price for an exclusive period of advantage. You can be 100% sure that all G32 miners will go to you as soon as it comes out from production and we have not and will not keep any to mine for sure. Starting August. we have already adjusted the price about 25% upwards on all new G32 orders to reflect on the actual cost increase.

Again. thank you very much for your patience to support us to make the best Grin G32 miners.

lnnosilicon Marketing Team.
Sept. 2. 2019

It appears that a Grin ASIC is now available. If anyone in the community has real life results, please publish. How does this impact any Inno pre-sales?

Yeah. So Obelisk failed, Innosilicon stalled, and a random Chinese company will deliver? Sound about right.

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You took the words right out of my mouth…couldn’t agree more. Caution to anyone sending them any money. This second link has a cut & paste of specs that look to be the Vidtoo specs, which took down their twitter feed.

Those following from 1Q19 will know they basically replicated Inno’s specs. And Inno appeared to take Obelisk’s specs and bump them up.

The 1Q19 mantra being…

“we are announcing too, we are better and we will give you your money back if you sign up now”

The Sept mantra has morphed…

“keep sending us your money but price has gone up 25% and we will be ready in Oct”

For the re-hashed Vidtoo spec…

you can almost smell the fishiness coming off the screen.

Because this is Vidtoo. Same shareholder of both companies.

As details move from private domain to the public, this is passed along to the community to help make informed decisions.

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/9/4/20849629/samsung-exynos-980-processor-5g-modem-built-in-default-ifa-2019

In an earlier reply, I said the 8nm capacity corridor at Samsung could be wider for Inno to ramp their products (assuming Inno did not pivot to TSMC).

As such, they could Go-to-market…. unless they had design issues.

With Samsung Exynos releasing their latest mobile AP in 8nm, that will pose a problem for Inno.

The realistic concern is that Inno may have both design issues and capacity issues.

So what are the likely execution outcomes for Inno?

  1. Pivot to TSMC in 7nm…win the capacity fight with Bitmain, Qualcomm, Huawei, AMD.

  2. Go-to-market in 8nm with Samsung…fight with Samsung internal Exynos loading.

  3. Continued delays and excuses.

  4. Go- to-market in 14nm or 10nm, with bandwidth defying-physics, to address the memory
    bottlenecks and performance claims.

You can size the likely outcome.

Make an informed decision on whether to send your $$ to them for a Grin miner or try to get your pre-payment back.

Hey can anyone else go check out Innosilicons website and see if it’s working?

It is odd, but the Inno site does appear to be down.

At least on the bright side, that random chinese company who posted a Grin MIner appears to be now offering an Inno-like A10 Eth miner too…called V10.

So out of no where, a company has a Vidtoo-like Grin MIner and an Innosilicon-like Eth Miner. Let’s all rush to send our money to them…not!

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this whole crypto mining franchise is now looking like a scam. a $3k bitcoin miner is earning just $6 a day(when u take-out d electricity cost). i wonder when U R going to ROI…

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plus the GRIN miners promised since april is nowhere to be found

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hahaha, come on let’s pre-order, what’s the worst that could happen¿

That is what a paper-tiger does. Announce early, even if you have nothing. It could scare aware anyone who may have a credible offering. When no one shows up, you make an excuse that you are late too. Or if you have something, you raise the prices. …no work needs to be done, just a a few social-media blasts.

hahahaha😂. that’s what i’d to like call “marketing strategy”

Yes, dude, at the moment I think that mining (especially underground) is not profitable. How much you earn in a month will not give you the profit that you want, you will pay for the light.

i think it should be negative for GPU miners mining bitcoin, since block difficulty is rising